The first “judge this” video spawned a lively discussion, so you about another? Z Weyand chose a different clip from the same 2003 FPAW Semifinals routine. Same deal this time. The video (7mb, mov) shows 30 seconds of freestyle. Think about the two scores you would give if you were using the current FPA judging system. Award your score when the video shows MARK.
Just a thought on the layout of the vid – the word "mark" could be a brighter color, first time i watched the vid i didnt notice it )) Other than that – another great segment Z! We will be up and ready with our scores soon enough )
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No jump, no catch!
At the first view it was pretty hard for me to judge accurately , but here goes the "first glance mark" – Both segments seemed pretty difficult, lots of turnover and ud moves, in cooperative fashion and pretty conseq. The first segment had sort of a flow-break in the middle, but it had a nice and more difficult pass to make up for it. So for me both segments are in the 6-7 range, but from the first glance the second segment seemed better to me, so its 6 and 7 resp.
After watching the vid a few times – the difficulty of the individual moves seems to be a bit higher in the second segment. But the cooperative action of the first one was more pronounced, and also the sheer number of moves was bigger. I dunno if this should matter that much, but
for me, after analysing – first segm 7, second 7 as well.
PS – i hope smb. writes a move-by-move name list, i want to know how some of that stuff is called ))
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No jump, no catch!
First of all, great job Z!!! This is really helpful!!!
[Note: this reply has been written without seeing the replies of any other person before.]
I’d like to split my reply into 2:
1) My impression from watching it the first time:
First Segment – I think it’s a 6.5… I remember Dave doing a pass to a pull, then co-op, turnover to Arthur – to a crow.
Second Segment – I’d give it a 6. It had a nice control of the disc, then a pretty hard turnover to a scarecrow. However, it included less things than the last.
2) My impression after watching it again&again:
Ok, I am taking the time to write down what I see:
First Segment – Dave’s gitis shoot to a utl pull, then a set while Arthur puts his leg on top of the disc, to Arthur’s btb pull, Dave brushes and takes it, turns over to Arthur, that sets.. And there’s Dave’s crow.
I think I’d give it a 7. It was very consequtive, I think what was less difficult was Dave receiving Arthur’s btb by brushing and then "the".
Second Segment – starts with counter, that shouldn’t afftect difficulty as far as I know. However, it’s turned over, and arthur does a btb pass while keeping it turned over. Then Dave brushes and does a neurons to Arthur, though it might be easier because he got it on a "suitable" angle. Arthur then catches a ScareCrow.
The moves were difficult, but as I have said – this segment included less than the previous one.
I would probably give it a 6.
OK, now let’s read the other replies here 😀
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“If the ball could choose, it would be a frisbee”
Did you guys notice that the second part is UPSIDE Down, Arthurs passes it upside down btb to Daves brush up and spining upside pass back set to the crow. It doesn’t get much harder than that, in 2003 this should get a 9 or 10 today a least 8 or 9. The first part in mind is very consecutive quick and nailed that’s an 8 at least in my world.
I think Z has a good point on this, the moves in this segment are pretty hard and I see no breaks in the flow.
Too much low scores happens when pro freestylers can do HARD tricks appear EASY.
For example, the Ring of Saturn shoot BTB by Arthur in the second segment is pretty hard to do, but he does it like butter, so it seems much easier.
My scores are:
1st Segment: Dave’s twisto to UTL pull to Arthur UTL pass; Arthur’s BTB pull/set to Dave’s brush and turningover to Arthur’s set to Dave’s Crow (ONE brush is not a break to my eyes): 7
2nd Segment: UD counter to Arthur, Rings of Saturn shoot BTB to Dave, Dave’s cove UD to Rings of Saturn shoot to Arthur, Arthur sets to Crow : 8
Keep thoughts coming,
Fabiosis
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” FLY HIGH AS A DISC IN THE SKY ! ”
Hi everyone!
I just saw the video and my first impression is first segment 7 and a half; second segment 8. This marks are given on the basis of the range which is usually used in tournaments (at least for what I’ve seen) where 8 is a super result while 9 and 10 are instead not very much used (10 not at all used)…I think the use of the complete scale should be a matter of discussion. If I had to use the complete scale, I’d give the first segment a 8 and a half and the second a 9. I hope I didn’t confuse you too much…
Ele.
Eleo, That’s exactly my point and why I’m spending time doing this. I am on a mission to raise difficulty scores, thanks for getting "it". Raising the whole reference point would do alot for all the freestylers self-esteem as well.
Alex, your wish is my command…
First co-op:
UD Counter: the first move is a btb variation on a Saturn move I call Proteus.
The Saturn family has no standardized move names yet, but…Proteus is a
clockwise Saturn swing with counter UD, or a counter Saturn swing with clock
UD. So, BTB proteus pass to Dave. Dave does a Proteus pass to me. Set to
Dave’s UD crow.
Second co-op:
Clock: Dave twisto set to under the leg pull. The intended version of this is
quite a bit harder. What Dave wants is a twisto set to a juice pull, but he has
to read the set in the moment and decide whether the move is there. On this
day, it wasn’t. After that, Dave does a flat set under my right let to my btb
rim pull and downwind set to Dave’s brush.
I’m not sure what the name of Dave’s turnover is. He should probably name it;
I hadn’t seen anyone do it before him. It’s a right handed clock one-handed
turnover – very very difficult. Sort of an against the spin one handed
turnover. Incidentally, this move is the first element of Connecting The
Marrons. Dave turns it over to me. I set to my own UD crow this time.
OK, I understand now my "reading" mistake with the second segment. Thanks all for commenting!
I agree it should receive 8, and I think I’ll stay with the 7 for the first one.
Z, I agree the whole scale should be used. If so, I’d probably give the first one 8 and the second – 9.
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“If the ball could choose, it would be a frisbee”
Thanx 2 Arthur for commenting on the moves, especially the turnover Dave did, i thought it looked wierd )) Very nice move.
Now a few more people are wisened up on the nature of UD swing moves, thanx folks )
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No jump, no catch!
Maybe I’m seeing something different than the rest of you but within the context
of a championship level competition these moves are smooth, consecutive,
precise and very hard. I’d give both segments a 9. These are champions at the
top of their form and these moves are likely the crux of their routine.
SJ
Sorry I am not replying to Skippy’s reply, but it’s not working from some reason.
Skippy, I believe we see the same thing but have a different judging rate. Not long ago I had no idea about ranking, until Alex asked his question here. I guess back then I’d give it 10. I am trying to understand how things are judged.
Have you seen the previous video of Arthur&Dave posted by Z? I guess if you give those 9, that video should be AT LEAST an 8, and I don’t remember anyone giving it 8 there.
What do you think?
Thanks,
Omer.
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“If the ball could choose, it would be a frisbee”
Sorry about the glitch with the REPLY link. I’m not sure why it’s happening. The
destination link is correct but sometimes it routes people back to the
homepage. If this ever happens to you, just go to the end of the story and hit
the first REPLY link (the one next to REFRESH, just below the story).
a classic example of making very difficult moves look so easy, it’s tempting to grade them with average scores. on first look, i probably would have judged 6.5 and 7.5 respectively. after several more looks and really thinking about what’s being done, i think i’d score them with an 8 and 9.
i think it might be worth discussing the difference between "technical difficulty" and "physical difficulty". this sequence by dave and arthur is an example of technical difficulty at nearly the highest level of the current game, but it doesn’t look or seem to be physically difficult. dave and arthur can obviously shift gears to the physically difficult game (5 spinning crows, double spinning flamigitosis, etc.) am i likely to judge such physically difficult moves with a higher score, especially when i am judging in the heat of the moment, with no opportunity for review? absolutely.
i think of a move chip bell did in the 1986 us open: 2 double downs, one in each direction, taking the second one inverted on the same hand that started the move and finishing off with a spinning flamingitosis. that is hugely physically difficult, not especially technical, and gets a 10 in my book all day long. dave & arthur have that kind of physicality in their toolkit, but this sequence had a different character to it, a technical smoothness that is made to look so easy that it’s also easy to give it a score that is probably a point or point-and-half too low….
the song they play to, "blurry" gets an 11….
greg
a classic example of making very difficult moves look so easy, it’s tempting to grade them with average scores. on first look, i probably would have judged 6.5 and 7.5 respectively. after several more looks and really thinking about what’s being done, i think i’d score them with an 8 and 9.
i think it might be worth discussing the difference between "technical difficulty" and "physical difficulty". this sequence by dave and arthur is an example of technical difficulty at nearly the highest level of the current game, but it doesn’t look or seem to be physically difficult. dave and arthur can obviously shift gears to the physically difficult game (5 spinning crows, double spinning flamigitosis, etc.) am i likely to judge such physically difficult moves with a higher score, especially when i am judging in the heat of the moment, with no opportunity for review? absolutely.
i think of a move chip bell did in the 1986 us open: 2 double downs, one in each direction, taking the second one inverted on the same hand that started the move and finishing off with a spinning flamingitosis. that is hugely physically difficult, not especially technical, and gets a 10 in my book all day long. dave & arthur have that kind of physicality in their toolkit, but this sequence had a different character to it, a technical smoothness that is made to look so easy that it’s also easy to give it a score that is probably a point or point-and-half too low….
the song they play to, "blurry" gets an 11….
greg
Well, I think we should aim for rewarding all sorts of play, be it physical or not, so making these incredibly hard (as it turns out) moves look easy is just as difficult i guess. So the discussion on judging is still as open as ever.
2 Z – thumbs up for posting such good segments, now we are sure you chose them for good reasons. Next thing id like to see discussed would be smth with brush runs and different rolls, no se how that style would be judged
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No jump, no catch!